And now that Sweeper is done, I'd say I can definitely understand what you're saying Squid. Was it a particular map that you kept getting killed on? Also was it Red AI or a player that kept killing you?

In most (if not all) of our missions now, Tracer includes an air start F-15 called "Alert Fighter" or something that's perfect for taking out an enemy camping the base. Once you shoot them down, they don't start close enough to get to you before you can get off the ground and it's never really much of a problem. My inclination is to lean toward a "let it play out" stance rather than try to build in some sort of immunity for people on the ground starting up, but of course I'm always able to hop in one of those Alert Fighter slots and take them out with relative ease. If it's really a persistent issue and you guys are finding yourselves pinned hopelessly on the ground, we can take some appropriate measures on your behalf.

For instance, if it's just one persistent Redfor douchebag like what-his-face who was talking a bunch of smack against us Wednesday or Thursday, I'd be more than happy to personally ban that person. After killing them a few more times for good measure, of course.

Hmmmmmmmm.........We have an alert "fighter" - What about an alert striker? Su-25T with rockets maybe? (so it isn't OP - alert fighters are typically heat only...)

I remember there being a huge forum post, defending people attacking air fields, i got upset one day when a Ka-50 was camping our farp/dob/air field. I personally dont like it when someone attacks/camps bases. But i dont make the rules, i just deal with it.

you could create a tank swarm that pushes red back...

So the deal was we had red tanks on top of Nellis, I was getting picked off by A-10s with JTAC's on the mountain. G-man was supporting in a Su-27 and was getting engaged by tons of fighters, there was a ridiculous amount of units stacked against us including air defense. I was in a t-90 in the south western end of Nellis and saw one F-15 spooling, now to be fair I had no idea who was in it at all. I saw it firing up and had to wait to manually load the tank again. I picked off the first one, a couple moments later another one spawned in a completely different spot. There were enough players that I didn't even think twice that maybe it was the same person let alone you Squid.

I did not purposely kill you twice and when you came into our channel I apologized. It was 3 people versus 15 or more. I mean honestly, would you think it's the same person jumping into the slot? Usually if I die, I will jump down a slot and back into the one I was just in. When I saw the new F-15 using one of our skins I figured it had been someone else, considering we had several Su-27 AI's nearby (doing nothing I might add), it only seemed normal that lots of CAP would be scrambled to deal with the air threat.

That T-90 I drove up, came from Mccarran and it took 40ish minutes of me evading your JTAC and not getting shacked by A-10s and whatever else could find us to get to Nellis. Again Squid, I apologize. I did not mean to kill you directly, twice and when you came into the channel I felt bad. We all took a minute and realized that you were actually mad and that surprised us.

I agree that maybe we need a trigger for it to end when we sit on the airfield long enough and it declares red victorious. We sat on that airfield multiple times for hours.

I definitely understand how you feel about getting killed on the ground, having been killed by KA-50s while at 3 out of 4 minutes on my A-10 Alignment or being knocked out by an r-73 while taxiing, or rolling down the runway. It's not fun, especially twice in a row.

Yeah, that's not "fair game." Those aren't earned kills, it's a matter of spending 30 seconds giving a bunch of units a move order and waiting until they get there. People who do that should be and usually are banned when we catch them. Do you remember who it was?

If someone were putting in the time and effort to get to a position where they could hit you on the ground from the air, then it's a bit of tough luck until you can fend them off or they run out of ammo. But using the ground commander like that is definitely crossing over the "griefing" line. When that happens, get somebody to ban them if you don't have SLMOD access yourself and we'll restart the mission or load a new one. I'm inclined to think trying to build in a bunch of counter-ground units or some kind of scripting trickery will just end up in more lag and memory leaks, so I'd suggest we stick with the simplicity of the tried-and-true banhammer.

Ok so what I'm understanding from this is, having these tanks originally coming from henderson and then manually driving them up north isn't fair game and considered ban worthy? I don't quite understand that. No I do not remember who it was. I did get into a position, while avoiding all the enemy shit to engage blue units.

If you want the mission to keep going maybe have it that after a set amount of time that it sees red units in the zone, a group of abrams spawns? Then you can also roll that armor over to boulder to help.

As a KA50 pilot I believe airport interdiction is an important role of my airframe. Harassing and/or temporarily shutting down an airport is a very valuable strategy. When I join a server with 15 people on blue and 2 or three on red, I know my briefing mission will be very difficult to achieve if not impossible. Constantly getting shot down by jets using radar guided missiles on a helicopter is a good way to ruin my fun. Especially when someone is using ground commander to vector the jets to me (why that’s needed for a KA50 pilot is beyond me). It’s very easy for a jet to put a KA50 in a helpless position, but almost impossible for the tables to be turned. War is unfair and I accept that, but we can level the field so that everyone has fun. Very rarely is an airport under attack without friendly CAP in the air. TS or chat is a great tool to remedy the situation by calling CAP back to the airport. Some of your missions clearly state – no attacking aircraft on the ground, landing or taking off. Since I was asked not to attack airports and take aircraft on the ground on your server I have not done so. But I have been hit on the ground at my Farp many times. I respect the rule and will continue to respect the rule. I do not hit jets on the ground or choppers on the ground at the Farp, even if the rule is not stated. I prefer to hunt chopper or take jets in the air. I will however hit choppers on the ground dropping troops or MANPADS. I also set up ambush points near the AO or Farp.

I do however suggest a compromise. Set a trigger so that once the airports air defenses have been destroyed and an enemy aircraft lands at the airport, the airport changes hands or the mission restarts. Air defenses, not endless amounts empty trucks. That gives the choppers another way to win in an unbalanced server and motivation for the cap to return and provide support. Also add an “alert” chopper at a Farp near the airport, player not AI, for airport defense. Obviously it will take great skill for chopper pilots to achieve this without getting shot down, but that’s what this sim is all about. Then keep and enforce the rules on landing, taking off and on the ground. Then everyone is happy. Keep in mind, we chopper pilots are helpless most of the time (– at least some of us are) …..

I can agree 100% if the airport is taken over by red, just restart the mission. i see no issues with this. im just not a fan of people getting killed over and over again. Just allow red to win and restart.

Y'all need this:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4063/4291833398_f05abd2e24_z.jpg?zz=1

I've noticed here on and a few other servers some people get really upset when getting knocked out, or shot down while taking off. Personally I think it is all part of the game. When I was at Hill A.F.B. that was part of the many drills: Get those planes up! We had jets come in from Mountain Home, Davis–Monthan, Nellis, the Marines in F-4's ,Navy F-14's all flew in to take out out brand new F-16s.
When I shipped out to Bitburg AB, it was the same there and a critical part of NATO TAC Evals. The British, the Germans, French, EVERYONE came after us and our F-15's. One year a F-104 Starfighter, actually dropped fuel pods near the Sound Suppressor I was working in.
When those sirens began to whirl it really meant look out!

And that is where my handle ZULU comes from: Alert jets on standby...fully armed ready to launch....
Essentially it comes down to game design...

Oh by the way...Note the single fuel tank...I am unsure who came up with the 2 fuel tanks being less drag...

I don't think there is ever a time where it's ok to be a jerk, regardless of what rules are in place. If anyone is attacking bases, then they're putting themselves in a position which has potential for other people to get upset with them. Therefore, one should ask themselves if it's even worth it to go there at all.

Everything boils down to not being a jerk AND not being ignorant to how you're effecting the gameplay of the people you're around. All of us play on this server because of the other people in it so don't screw it up for yourself.

That said I do think we've become a bit soft. Our first reaction to being attacked at base seems to be 'oh that's not fair' instead of taking on a challenge (and @cooper, yes it's a challenge to find you- radar isn't designed to find slow movers).

This stuff doesn't just apply to base attacking. A little bit of social intelligence goes a long way in comms, gameplay in general, and pretty much everything.

IMO just don't do too much negative stuff. That includes bragging, swearing, complaining, helo sniping in fighter jets, base attacking, dominating comms, team switching, griefing, pouting, slandering, too many 'suggested changes', gossiping, lewd jokes, ect ect ect.

Do a little bit because it's weird if you never do any of that but clue in when you are and limit it.

If we can all do that then we don't need any rules.

Besides, we all know the intent of the rules we do have so we break them all the time. We're not actually kicking members for teamkilling when the mission has 30 seconds left.
It's never about the action itself.

I get shot down in a Ka-50 all the time by Air, both red and AI, no one shows me any mercy. As people have said before its war and it sucks, so i just deal, with it and adapt. Just have to have an objective for red or blue if they take an air field it resets or something, i dont see a big deal.

That may work but it also might turn every mission into 'cap the base'. I'm sure people will be upset when the mission never lasts more than 10 min because the base capper guy is online. He'll think he's fine too because it's built into the mission.

Boulder has a group that heads to nellis, actually 2 or 3.

Fair enough i see both sides, just make a set of rules and ti will be followed, its simple.