There seems to be a significant number of F99th members playing ArmA on our dedicated server recently, and at the same time, there is some disagreement about participation, and which addons, radio system, etc to use.

First up, I apologize for the constant upheaval in the required mods list... I'm new at this, and also perhaps trying a bit too hard to please everyone.

Specifically on RHS (@RHSUSAF and @RHSAFRF): This was in the original mod pack because the pre-made missions we downloaded required it. More mods got added early as we found interesting things to fill different perceived needs in ALiVE/Insurgency missions. The mod pack ballooned up to 35GB, so I started taking a critical eye to each of the mods and deciding if they were "core" or not. RHS was removed because it's 12GB, has a ballistics system that may interfere with @ACE3 (a core mod), large overlap with CUP, and a huge number of vehicles and units that we weren't using. I understand that this broke a lot of people's saved loadouts, including mine.

Now we're in the position where RHS is not required for the mission to load, but our ArmA-playing members are split about 50-25-25... 50% are quite vocal that they want the RHS weapons back, 25% are threatening to leave if I make them download it again, and 25% don't care, "just make up your @&#%'ing mind". You can see the bind I'm in. I'm currently building a test mission with RHS and ACE3 together to see what can be done about the conflicting ballistics systems. I need to hear from you guys what the right solution is.

Oh, also, every other squad's mission pack seems to have ACE3 and RHS together. If anybody could reach out to someone in those squads to get more details, I'd appreciate it.

Excellent idea to put this to writing in a thread, and as always thank you for your efforts in administrating this corner of the F99th world.

Like I've said, I have zero experience putting together missions in ArmA or setting up various, possibly conflicting addons to make them work. I did try to look in to it as it pertains to ACE and RHS briefly and I turned up surprisingly little with several Google searches along the lines of "ArmA 3 RHS and ACE compatibility issues." At least less than I would have expected. I've seen a couple of things like this where it seems like ACE and RHS are capable of playing nicely together, but then there are also generalized complaints about "why don't you make these compatible? blah blah," in various places too. I don't know what to make of it. Overall I get the sense though that lots of people are using them together and it works sufficiently well. I also don't remember any glaring issues when we did have RHS in the pack. There was that zero recoil thing briefly, but it was resolved before RHS was removed so I have to think it had nothing to do with it.

I defer to you guys on the technical side of it. I also know it's a lot of work going back and forth between these different mod sets and building missions off of them, so even just from the "pain in the ass" standpoint there's plenty of reason to hold off on switching back to RHS. No one would dispute that as a legitimate concern.

Speaking strictly from the practical, in-game experience standpoint, RHS is miles and miles ahead of CUP in the most apparent and commonly-used aspects. There's no disputing everything looks and feels nicer in RHS than the equivalent in CUP and the overall presentation of the addon is much more polished even in the details like the names and icons for things in the Armory. CUP's 3D models and textures are just nauseating. I tend to like to set my kits up along the lines of USMC gear and what CUP did to that MARPAT uniform... Somebody oughta be locked up for that. The guns too are for the most part hideous and the attachments have their own issues. Some of the vehicles like the Bradley are okay, but others like the HMMWV are well below par. There are countless packs of ArmA 2-ported stuff that looks better, even the Massi weapons we have in there now is more often than not better. Some of it is like going back to Delta Force 2. As much as I appreciate a nostalgia trip, I'm preoccupied with the tragedy of re-skinning the beauty of ArmA 3 with visual fidelity befitting a not-so-new smartphone game.

Under the hood, CUP may be doing things a whole hell of a lot better and I wouldn't ever know it, but on the monitor in front of me it falls way short and it definitely takes away from the experience of the game. It seems to me the trend is that people more often like to use current-day stuff and not as much the near-to-mid-future, fictional ArmA 3 vanilla stuff, so there's a definite demand to be filled by one addon or another. In the long-long term, CUP may completely turn around all of my above-listed points of bitching, but I don't think it will be any time even remotely soon. In the realistic long term, RHS seems to me a very worthwhile avenue to pursue and the only real answer for high quality current-day content, provided the compatibility issues are able to be dealt with. In the short term, I think the CUP vs. RHS issue should be entirely the prerogative of the guys putting this together and making it work. I would cast my vote definitively on the "long-term aim for RHS" side, but do it at your leisure. In my particular case, I'm just falling back on vanilla ArmA 3 gear. I would love to get my current-day kits going again, but in my book quasi-futuristic BS in OCP is preferable to the ArmA 2-ported Massi stuff and vastly preferable to CUP.

Most of us have at least two installations of DCS right now, many of us have the full three. As long as the mods don't get beyond 40 GB I feel like most of us can make it work. 30 GB or less should be well within reach. ED should be unifying the maps in to one executable any day now (although "day" may be defined very differently in Russia), so we may have some extra space coming soon. You mentioned RHS being 12 GB, but looking at it on my computer now it's almost exactly the same size as the CUP weapons and vehicles, roughly 7 GB with the new @RHSGREF. The hassle of going through another ArmA3Sync update is negligible. Given the miserable history of how I used to try to match up my mods with other people, I'm more than happy to hit a couple buttons and wait less than an hour to arrange several GB worth of addons. A3Sync is a godsend, the download speed is fantastic, and Naro put together an excellent guide that explains how to do all of it. We've literally never had it so good. My inclination is to slap some sense in to anyone complaining about frequent updates *COUGH*Mata *COUGH*.

Whatever gets decided, you should know you've got a great thing going here either way. I've got a strong opinion in the RHS vs. CUP issue, but I hope it's not taken as such a point of contention. In the grand scheme of things you're doing things overwhelmingly right and I plan on being a regular presence on the server with or without RHS. You can definitely afford to lean on your own intuition a bit more instead of worrying about making everyone else happy.

i agree with everyone, i just want the same mods, so i can pump out missions and help out. used to play in a community of 60 gig mod pack, it doesn't bother me. It just staying constant is what i want

I agree with Mata, we need to keep the updates from becoming to much, I shouldn't have to update daily... however that comes with the stability of the MODs in use and how often they need to be updated to keep them stable. I am relatively new to ARMA so I can't give input on the mods to use or radio/teamspeak mods we should use. But with that I can't wait to shoot more baddies

RHS is coming back in, but I'm too busy to get the repo updated right now.

If you want to get a head start on the downloads...

f99th.arma.site/@RHSGREF.zip
f99th.arma.site/@RHSUSAF.zip
f99th.arma.site/@RHSAFRF.zip

Don't enable them in the modset for our dedicated server until I've had time to sync the repos.

After looking at RHS and CUP myself yesterday, RHS seems to have better quality. I like the idea of CUP but RHS is better. Not sure if it is compatible with ACE but I have not tried it with ACE. RHS gear and weapons coupled with the RH Weapons and Accessories packs(robert hamer) would be great! Robert Hammers Weapons to me seem like the most accurate and detailed of them all.

Understandably not everyone will have the same opinions but everyone is entitled to speak theirs as long as not to put down or criticize another's.

How about just adding RHSUSAF back in? Won't fix ACE3 compatibility, but it won't be as big of a download, either...

The whole thing is only 7 GB, which actually happens to be pretty much exactly the same as the CUP weapons, units, and vehicles. A few MB less actually.

And a couple of people have had some ideas for a team vs. team type of setup, so some OPFOR uniforms will definitely be welcome for that.

i am down for just switching Cup for RHS to get it over with, so i an start making missions, including the PvP one, however this wont be the biggest priority, as we have at max 8 or 9 people that join. but i can make a ticket based system / Domination game. where it generates a point you have to take, and the side that takes it gets points etc.

However if we are going to have a PvP mission, i vote no on any sort of radio coms, and just use Ts3 channels. the pvP mission will take a while, as we don't have a lot of people playing, in will add in AI for both sides. But those details can be worked out later.

When the mod pack is locked i will be making an operation style mission for either every saturday/sunday (whenever the most can be on) or every other week. it will include all roles, and will run for 2-4 hours. way better than the we did last time. i already have some missions setup just need everyone synced together, i think everyone will enjoy them a lot.

We really appreciate everyone feedback, it helps a ton, so thanks all!

I was thinking the whole ALIVE AI thing is still good, and if it's possible to include that as part of the PvP that'd be awesome. Like a third faction hostile to both player teams that controls most of the map, and then the two player controlled teams fight over common objectives.

If we're still okay with the persistence thing, they could each have their own bases on opposite sides of the map with defenses that'll keep all but the heaviest player attack at bay. Maybe also set up UAV sweeps to keep tabs on where the other team is periodically, not leave the PvP portion completely up to a chance encounter.

How does that sound from a feasibility standpoint? And is that sounding as awesome to you guys as it did to me earlier?

Persistence isn't going to work for that. The.missions just.run until we reboot the server. As for alive, they only work blue four and op four. They won't work with a 3rd faction. But we can make a red vs blue mission and have alive systems on both sides. For transport cas etc.

After the mod pack is locked in we can get more people to play on a regular basis. After we see steady population we can move forward with a population mission. But I don't suggest it for our primary as for its more difficult to setup. Right now having steady groups playing pvE will be our best bet. And in a while if people are still interested we can move forward.

We can, but they would have to have our identical mod pack...

That being said, it would require extra moderation and scripts for team killers etc etc etc. in theory its possible, but it would require a lot of administration, i am fine with this and can do it. But i know we are a DCS squadron first, and do not want to step on any toes.

In my opinion, we should just focus on getting it stable, a set mod pack, and see if the interest stays, because in a month or two, people may just disappear, it may just be a fad.

If we have a stable mod pack, and people are showing up to operations and on a regular basis, then push for PvP missions. Right now its too much. We have to keep it simple. and see if people are still interested over a long period of time.

Well, we're running a modpack...Do you think people are going to D/L it and play with us?

Even then, a bunch of randoms in the server usually doesn't work very well (see DCS multiplayer).


I'm not sure on full on PVP stuff, but I do like the idea of a few OPFOR player slots so the opposition is a little random and more mean.

Thanks to everyone for their input and help. The mod pack is locked, and you may now update your Arma 3 Sync. Check the Arma forums for OP orders for coming events, and daily shenanigans are available any time! Mod and mission updates are in the Dedicated server thread. Happy hunting!

I don't see any harm in it. Downloading the adddon pack serves as its own way of "weeding out the riffraff" without needing to password it. Greater participation is always better, why not take advantage?